Curse

Amy Awien · Jul 11, 2011, 02:07 PM // 14:07

No. None of what you say makes their actions less evil.

What they did before meeting Saul is unknown and doesn't make their actions in Kryta any less evil. They've killed people to further their own goals.

Evil done by others, like the Vizier, or any Canthans, does not make their actions any less evil.

Ascalon is at war with the invading Charr.

What other Mursaat? If there are other then the ones we fight we may meet them yet and see how they are. For now, the Mursaat as we know them have been pretty evil.

Konig Des Todes · Jul 11, 2011, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skale Devotee

Anyway the Mursaat actually provide the technology to keep the door closed and there are millions of people in Tyria, what's a few less? For all we know the Mursaat could be infertile or something. Anyway how can you blame the Mursaat for killing humans when, in Prophecies, we killed hundreds of Charr. I'm sure that if we were in the Mursaat's position we wouldn't mind killing a few hundred Charr to save the world.

That's a poor comparison. Ascalon and the charr are in a war, so of course there'd be casualties, and are hated rivals. The mursaat and humans are not. It's like saying it's equally reasonable for Kournans to starve their own peasants (what they did in NF) compared to Kurzicks and Luxons killing each other. The former is obviously worse because there's no active - or rather, mutual - conflict.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skale Devotee

Also it's not like human's are the greatest race on the planet. What about Vizier Khilbron who wiped out an entire city because he worshiped Abaddon, Shiro who transformed hundreds of people into Afflicted, Varesh Ossa who tried to bring about Nightfall? Then again they were touched by Abaddon.

Even ignoring Abaddon, and slapping on Verata, you're comparing a handful of humans to the whole - the majority are not (actively) harmful. Bandits and the Kaineng gangs are the worst you get in large numbers, really. The mursaat however have yet to show a single "good" (I use the term loosely) individual.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skale Devotee

Besides the Mursaat barely know of us or our culture and we know practically nothing about them. After all we don't know if the Mursaat we encountered are really representatives of their whole race? After all they are invisible. There could be untold thousands out there who didn't agree.

You're making a pretty large assumption in saying that the mursaat, one of the three confirmed oldest races (older than the Six Gods' presence on Tyria) knew nothing of humans.

True that we don't see many, but they could of included even one "traitor" or one that shows there can be good mursaat. True that a lack of evidence isn't evidence of lacking, but its also true that there's nothing to support that it isn't evidence of lacking either.

Skale Devotee · Jul 12, 2011, 06:01 AM // 06:01

It may be an assumption but it isn't unreasonable that the Mursaat wouldn't know much about humans. After all, they do appear to live in isolation from the rest of the world and humans certainly didn't know anything about them before Prophecies.

What I have said in my previous post is definitely flawed, I'll admit it, but do you really think that it is fair to pronounce judgement on a race we actually know nothing about?

Let's say that I was a Tengu and lived under a rock from birth, thus I knew nothing about humans. Then one day I met some random human guild and saw that they were killing Tengu for some, unknown reason. I would think that all of humanity was evil, but that doesn't mean I am right.

To conclude I am just saying that it's not fair to say that the Mursaat are evil and deserve to be eradicated without knowing anything about them.

Stop persecuting them while we know nothing about them. Let's try and get a little perspective and stop being so quick to condemn them.

Spiritz · Jul 15, 2011, 11:09 AM // 11:09

ok i9ve not read entire thread - but if you think of it this way , we never knew about the asurans but they existed and same with mursaat.
Unseen Gods should be a big clue - especially 'unseen'.
With no knowing of how the mursaat act usually of course we will see them as foes - they are using us to ensure their survival which doesnt go down too gd with humans.
I doubt that even if the mursaat said to us - we need human sacrafices to ensure a bigger evil doesnt come - we would help or have a different view of them.
In nf in realm of torment there is the margonite who goes against the margonites etc , in eotn you have charr who are "traitors" but actually trying to do some gd but so far there has never been a "friendly" mursaat.

draxynnic · Jul 15, 2011, 03:26 PM // 15:26

I'd be happy to sit down and discuss the mursaat's point of view as soon as I meet one that isn't trying to kill me. We've had two margonites... Margonites, a race that is literally defined by service to an insane and by most standards evil (now, if not at the time of his imprisonment) god... move over to the side of good. So far, the only indication of a redeeming feature among the mursaat is the whole "they saved lives" thing... and as the Canthan peasant said, sometimes doing good for others is really doing good for yourself. There's no evidence that anything the mursaat did was for anything but selfish reasons.

On possible yardstick here is Glint. For those who've read Edge of Destiny, this is the Glint who was created with the ability to read the minds of every sapient individual on Tyria, and who turned against her creator because she was fed up with pointless killing. She doesn't quite call them evil, but she does describe them as "terrible and fearful" - and when it comes to the Flameseeker Prophecies she certainly seems to see taking down the mursaat at least as acceptable collateral damage, if not the primary objective of taking the monstrous gamble of allowing the Gate of Komalie to be opened, at least temporarily.

Now, I know a lot of people have conspiracy theories regarding Glint... but now she's given us as fans a full explanation of her motivations, followed by putting her money where her mouth was by sacrificing her life for a cause. If Glint truly saw nothing redeeming in the mursaat... than without some stronger evidence to the contrary than saving a few lives through acts that clearly had motives beyond altruism, I'm inclined to believe her.